Diet and hair loss?

[powersam]

Diet and hair loss are related, it's a fact, and don't post the usual super fat guy with a rug on his head again, we got the point...

If it's a fact, where are the perfectly clear studies?

They don't exist, neither do the ones disproving it.

Instead we have people espousing opinions as facts, which is a shame, and adds nothing to the debate.

I could be wrong but sometimes i think people interpret anybody saying there's a link between hairloss and diet automatically thinks that that person is saying there's a cure and you can stop hair loss, through diet alone, not true at all, but I'm not sure how people can rule out the effect of diet on hair either.

Lets take a look at insulin resistance and hairloss

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12775957

e prevalence of extensive loss of hair (at least grade II or III on Ludwig's scale) was quite high (31.2%). The insulin resistance associated parameters, such as waist and neck circumferences, abdominal obesity measured by waist-to-hip ratio, mean insulin concentration (11.3 mU/l versus 9.95 mU/l, p=0.02) or urinary albumin-to-creatinine ratio (1.80 versus 1.58, p=0.01), were significantly higher in women with extensive hair loss compared to those with normal hair or only minimal hair loss (grade I on Ludwig's scale).

Now i could be wrong but can't insulin resistance be influenced by diet?

That's just one of many examples, hopefully from such a starting, a discussion can take place, whereby people bring to the table facts, questions and refutes.

I've posted the above study many times, and a few other ones, all showing that there is a strong chance that male pattern baldness is connected to insulin. Seems most have a mental block about the issue though.

 

[balder]

If we were born bald and never grew hair, then we can blame our genes.

But male pattern baldness occurs during a guys lifetime and epigenetics states that our environment/lifestyle is responsible for those dispositions. THere is no such thing as a "timer" gene waiting to set off by itself - something set off those genes.

Timing of genes does exist.

Puberty is a good example.

 

[balder]

there is a strong chance that male pattern baldness is connected to insulin.

Insulin and aging are definitely correlated...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 064935.htm

...but Tatar and his team found that insulin regulates its own production and that it directly regulates tissue aging. The principle: Keep insulin levels low and cells are stronger, staving off infection and age-related diseases such as cancer, dementia and stroke.

[...]

male pattern baldness is much like an accelerated aging of scalp and scalp hair...

 

[freakout]

Timing of genes does exist.

Puberty is a good example.

Good one
Many are still on the assumption that genes control life. That theory fell apart after the Human Genome Project (HGP) concluded.

In 2001 or 2002, HGP revealed that, of the expected 140,000 to 1.5 million genes, humans have only about 23,000 genes - a number no more than what monkeys and mice have. What's more surprising is our genes are almost identical to these animals. Human Genome Project

What did the project reveal? That our superiority over other animals is NOT defined by our genes but by LIFE - that life controls genes. Genomics is the latest push into microbiology. Unfortunately, it is out of reach by the typical laboratory because it requires super computers.

More on this

Puberty is a normal extremely complex process. It is controlled by life - not by genes.

male pattern baldness is an abnormal process because it associates with several serious conditions and diseases. Stating that it's a 'male trait' is irresponsible.

 

[balder]

Aging is strongly determined by genetic factors

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/ ... telomeres/

Inside the center or nucleus of a cell, our genes are located on twisted, double-stranded molecules of DNA called chromosomes. At the ends of the chromosomes are stretches of DNA called telomeres, which protect our genetic data, make it possible for cells to divide, and hold some secrets to how we age and get cancer.

Telomeres have been compared with the plastic tips on shoelaces because they prevent chromosome ends from fraying and sticking to each other, which would scramble an organism's genetic information to cause cancer, other diseases or death.

Yet, each time a cell divides, the telomeres get shorter. When they get too short, the cell no longer can divide and becomes inactive or "senescent" or dies. This process is associated with aging, cancer and a higher risk of death. So telomeres also have been compared with a bomb fuse.

 

[balder]

male pattern baldness is an abnormal process because it associates with several serious conditions and diseases. Stating that it's a 'male trait' is irresponsible.

Those serious conditions and diseases are correlations but correlation is not always causation.

Some people go NW7 bald but otherwise have perfect health and other people keep a full NW1 but with extremely bad health with conditions like arthritis, obesity, etc.


Perhaps epigenetics gives a clue

http://georgefebish.wordpress.com/2011/ ... in-common/

Baldness and cancer are linked to Progenitor Cells, a kind of stem cell. Progenitor Cells are somewhere between a stem cell and a normal cell. Stem Cells have epigenetic markers unset so they are not a specific type of cell yet. Progenitor Cells have some epigenetic markers set but not all and can be quickly turned into a specific cell as needed. Another difference between the two is that Stem Cells can multiply indefinitely but Progenitor Cells have a limited number of reproductions. This is a very new area of research and is not well understood yet but Progenitor Cells are linked to both cancers, heart failures and to baldness. Some studies have shown that stroke patients with more endothelial progenitor cells had a better chance of avoiding repeat heart attacks. It was once felt baldness was due to a lack of Stem Cells. But recently scientists found men that have baldness have the same number as men without baldness. But the bald men have far fewer Progenitor Cells. Scientists are now looking for why these men’s stem cells stopped producing Progenitor Cells. Epigenetics is a powerful system at work inside each cell of our bodies. It is clearly affected by diet, stress, thought and environmental toxins. As these triggers reset our epigenetic codes, we move into possibly new areas of disease, mental illness and depression. It is imperative for us to both understand epigenetic triggers and to control them if we are to have a healthy and happy life style. Could we be witnessing the start of a new evolution from human into something else.

 

[JayC2]

nw7 dont have perfect health!!!! did you really just say that!! hahahahha....then it gets better "ITS A DISEASE" aaaaahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha

 

[slurms mackenzie]

NW7 never have perfect health sorry, otherwise they wouldn't go bald, it's a sign of disease, otherwise people would be happy to go bald, because it's so naturally genetically programmed like blue eyes,

So untrue.

There's lots of things that people aren't happy with that are genetically programmed from the serious such as congenital heart disease, to the more trivial such as a large hooter, or a tiny weiner.

Plenty of NW7's have perfect health.

 

[s.a.f]

NW7 never have perfect health sorry, otherwise they wouldn't go bald, it's a sign of disease, otherwise people would be happy to go bald, because it's so naturally genetically programmed like blue eyes,

So untrue.

There's lots of things that people aren't happy with that are genetically programmed from the serious such as congenital heart disease, to the more trivial such as a large hooter, or a tiny weiner.

Plenty of NW7's have perfect health.

:agree: Nobody wants to be small, ginger, hairy arsed or ugly either but you cant say they're all without exception unhealthy.

 

[s.a.f]

[attachment=0:2fc2crp6]permanent-facepalm-facepalm-fail-pigeon-demotivational-poster-1260284257.jpg[/attachment:2fc2crp6]

 

[anxious1]

Fred the belgian said:

NW7 never have perfect health sorry, otherwise they wouldn't go bald, it's a sign of disease, otherwise people would be happy to go bald, because it's so naturally genetically programmed like blue eyes,

I cant believe u said that either. What about genetics?

u cant just make a generalised statement like that. There may be some bald men, who have accelerated it with bad diet, or excesses of things, but most of them were probably destined to be like that because of genetics.

Except for a small percentage of cases (which isnt even male pattern baldness, its just hairloss), male pattern baldness is not a disease, or a sign that anything is wrong.

U just want it to be a disease so bad, because that would imply that theres a cure to be found.

Don't know what to answer huh. You can't beat me lol

I think everyones just dumbfounded, as to how someone could say something so dumb.

I am from a big family, with several brothers, ranging from extremely healthy, (no drugs / alcohol watsoever ) to the opposite extreme (me) And despite our differences in lifestyle, we all have the exact balding pattern (mainly temple recession) at around the same age.

I have to agree that diet 'MAY', play a part, i.e it may be a small contributing factor, but certainly genetics is a much greater contributor.

 

[s.a.f]

Fred the belgian said:

NW7 never have perfect health sorry, otherwise they wouldn't go bald, it's a sign of disease, otherwise people would be happy to go bald, because it's so naturally genetically programmed like blue eyes,

[quote:al01tatd]Don't know what to answer huh. You can't beat me lol

I think everyones just dumbfounded, as to how someone could say something so dumb.[/quote:al01tatd]

Exactly its like trying to argue evolution with a radical christian fundamentalist! :shakehead:

 

[s.a.f]

someone told me recently that Wayne Rooney for example is super healthy, I'm sorry but when I look at his lifestyle, he's far from healthy.

What you mean his lifestyle of training 5 times a week?

The guy can run around a soccer pitch for 90 mins playing world level football. I'd bet under fitness tests he could beat 95% (including you) of the general population. Just because he has the odd night out does'nt make him unhealthy.
So anyone who is'nt eating celery at the gym 24/7 is unhealthy in your opinion? :shakehead:

 

[s.a.f]

I've never smoked tobacco, weed, or have taken any forbidden substances.

Me too and yet I went bald at a young age - see you in 3 yrs! :wink:

 

[anxious1]

You can try to take us on a tangent all u like, but the fact is u said this, and it is not correct.

NW7 never have perfect health sorry, otherwise they wouldn't go bald, it's a sign of disease, otherwise people would be happy to go bald, because it's so naturally genetically programmed like blue eyes,

I like u, ur funny and cool, but just admit u said something incorrect.

 

[freakout]

I Broke the Mystery of Male Pattern Baldness

Aging is strongly determined by genetic factors
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/ ... telomeres/

Ahh, the age old question of aging .

I stopped subscribing to theoretical analysis of genetic material such as the one your posted after the Human Genome Project concluded. I'm very excited about Genomics.

I agree that inheritance has some level of influence but also in this manner:
The activity of our ancestors can predispose us to early death. That's epigenetics at work.

I also have a first hand story from my mom about my grandmother and her sisters. Two of them lived the fast lane in the cities. One stayed in their remote province. Two lived to be in their seventies. One, in her nineties, respectively.

There is always an interplay between inheritance (genetic) and environmental factors but something stands in-between - that's the "epi" (in epigenetics) which means "above" or "in control of". It's called life.

We cannot do anything about our ancestor's activities but only to study what they did to adversely affect their descendants. We can only so something about our environment and lifestyle which will benefit us and the future generation.

 

[freakout]

I Broke the Mystery of Male Pattern Baldness

Those serious conditions and diseases are correlations but correlation is not always causation.

:agree: Yes, correlation is not always causation. In other words, one does not cause the other e.g. diabetis does not cause male pattern baldness. BUT it could mean that the correlated conditions may have a common contributing factor.

 

[freakout]

Aging is strongly determined by genetic factors.

Here is one to think about:

THe nuclei contains the genome which contains the genes. In theory, a cell dies if the genome is removed because genes supposedly 'control life'.

But then you can remove the nuclei of a single cell bacteria and it will continue to live for months. What determines its death when the genome was removed months ago?

Here's another:
In an experiment, two sets of mice were fed with different amount of food. One set was allowed to eat normally and how much they want to eat. The other set was fed HALF of what the first set ate.

Results: the second set lived almost twice are much - close to four years instead of just two years.

 

[balder]

In an experiment, two sets of mice were fed with different amount of food. One set was allowed to eat normally and how much they want to eat. The other set was fed HALF of what the first set ate.

Results: the second set lived almost twice are much - close to four years instead of just two years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_re ... _and_PHA-4

Evidence suggests that the biological effects of CR are closely related to chromatin function.[66] A study conducted by the Salk Institute for Biological Studies and published in the journal Nature in May 2007 determined that the gene PHA-4 is responsible for the longevity behind calorie restriction in roundworms, "with similar results expected in humans".[67]

 

[freakout]

I Broke the Mystery of Male Pattern Baldness

It's just another theory ascribing a gene to a function. It's a theory that it's responsible for longetivity but, under epigenetics, it's also possible that's its under the influence of a more complex process. Life is a process.

Remember, part of our behavior can also be inherited. And human behavior is extremely complex. Our dexterity is unlike any animal.

So the real question is, with only 23,000 genes, what makes you different from a mouse or a monkey since our genes are almost identical to their's?. I don't see a mouse with male pattern baldness. Even with monkeys, only the macaques, which we cannot call male male pattern baldness because even females lose hair, "represent" the so-called "androgenetic alopecia".

Conventional beliefs genetics do not make sense. It's dying. To some geneticists, it's already dead. We can talk about inheritance or inherited traits but not specific genes. Welcome to Genomics.