Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[JaneyElizabeth]

Bicalutamide does one thing and that is block androgenic activities, spironolactone on the other hand was not designed to do that.

I get that but to my knowledge, it still works primarily by receptor blocking otherwise, how is it working when it often increases T? spironolactone resembles chemically some other natural metabolites:

Spironolactone is a moderate antiandrogen.[113][138][163] That is, it is an antagonist of the androgen receptor (AR), the biological target of androgens like testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT).[113][138][163] By blocking the AR, spironolactone inhibits the effects of androgens in the body.[113][138][163] The antiandrogenic activity of spironolactone is mainly responsible for its therapeutic efficacy in the treatment of androgen-dependent skin and hair conditions like acne, seborrhea, hirsutism, and pattern hair loss and hyperandrogenism in women, precocious puberty in boys with testotoxicosis, and as a component of feminizing hormone therapy for transgender women.[138][165][181] It is also primarily responsible for some of its side effects, like breast tenderness, gynecomastia, feminization, and demasculinization in men.[114][181] Blockade of androgen signaling in the breast disinhibits the actions of estrogens in this tissue.[182] Although useful as an antiandrogen in women, who have low testosterone levels compared to men,[183][184] spironolactone is described as having relatively weak antiandrogenic activity.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

What you and others are probably thinking of is the "predecessor" to bica, flutamide which known to cause liver damage.

Much more so than bica although there are probably more studies still on flutamide but still, we did a forum/seminar with researchers in the MtF field and none of them gave bica "a free pass" as being safer long-run than spironolactone. The first time I ever heard of regrowth for any males was when a forgotten congressman started regrowing hair in the 80's with flutamide, I believe, before succumbing to cancer but most/many prostate treatments work for XY hair loss for obvious reasons related to reductase.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Bicalutamide does one thing and that is block androgenic activities, spironolactone on the other hand was not designed to do that.

It does at least two things: block receptors and increase circulating T in most people. Also remember that blocking receptors is pretty vague. spironolactone and Bica don't occupy exactly the same receptors and unlike CPA, they don't lower T. I think the hit or miss aspect of blocking more or less or unusual receptors in some folks since we vary in terms of how many and which get blocked, that account for especially with spironolactone, the uncomfortable and unpredictable sides. Some use spironolactone quietly without issue but along with breast growth questions, "I want to change AA's" is the number one question on MtF fora and my joke is that the favorite AA of MtF's is the one that she hasn't used yet.

Bridge didn't go into this much but he used all of the big 3 AA's and then took breaks but his E2 levels seemed only to go up overall based upon complete protocol. He seemed to be testing them as well which some might want to try but only with extreme caution. Everything worked for dude and maybe that's why he is semi-famous. He found something that can work especially for people who lack sides and who seem more so immune to shedding for some reason.

 

[Gergely]

It does at least two things: block receptors and increase circulating T in most people.

No it doesn't, T increases because there's no free receptor to bind to. It's a natural mechanism of the body. It's not directly caused by the administration of bica.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

That's a million dollar question...lol.
No one knows what estradiol blood level will "guarantee regrowth" for you.
I suspect the estradiol level that starts regrowth for you will be dependent on your genetics, estrogen receptor sensitivity in your hair follicles and other variables that we are currently unaware of. Sadly, for some folks, no amount of E2 will bring back their hair.

Do you know your current estradiol level? If it's currently at the low end of the reference range you could try increasing it into the top end of the reference range. There's no guarantees in any of this but an estradiol level at the high end of the male range would be more beneficial to hair growth than e2 at the lower end of the range.

If estradiol does not help, then it is likely something else but that does mean it is probably a diagnosable and treatable condition.

All that typically means is that you require more testing to figure out what the problem is.

I think it is thankfully a proportionately rare phenomenon when somebody has a hair loss condition that is not remedied by some treatment.

 

[Gergely]

I venture to guess if one can only produce T from the adrenal glands, no amount of bica will increase T by a significant margin. This is just a guess though

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

No it doesn't, T increases because there's no free receptor to bind to. It's a natural mechanism of the body. It's not directly caused by the administration of bica.

I will rephrase yes to be more precise. Its use is accompanied by an increase in circulating T but I think that's the same phrasing one would use for spironolactone as well. CPA does decrease T and significantly so as does MPA. FWIW, I hear far fewer complaints about Provera than any of the other commonly used synthetic AA's and it works straightforwardly which makes the testing most commonly used which is far from detailed, much easier to interpret. I have felt no sides from Provera.

Remember that for cancer meds, it might be the whole point to shut down certain receptor sites but for feminization and hair growth, such a blunt, full frontal attack might be both unnecessary and unrecommended in terms of continuing treatment.

 

[Depression]

You are very lucky to have recovered so much hair, we are both young I understand why you have made such a big diet to recover your hair, I wrote a post on my hair loss that eats my life

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

You are very lucky to have recovered so much hair, we are both young I understand why you have made such a big diet to recover your hair, I wrote a post on my hair loss that eats my life

What treatments have you tried?

 

[Gergely]

MPA and CPA decrease luteinizing hormones, while bicalutamide increases LH and gonadal production of T leading to an increase in e2 levels.

 

[Depression]

I'm on finasteride since 112 days and minoxidil since 152 days..

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

I'm on finasteride since 112 days and minoxidil since 152 days..

finasteride takes a but if min you should be seeing -something- by now, even if it is just nascent regrowth.

Do you have any other accompanying skin problems? That's important, if your scalp or skin around your hair is irritated, has pain or itching emanating from it you need to get that addressed.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

IMO people might argue this with me but I feel like unless you have documented high testosterone and specifically high DHT, that finasteride or dutasteride should not be the first line response for hair loss.

 

[Depression]

what more can I do in your opinion? I'm going to take an anti-dandruff shampoo but I have tried everything, all the remedies and nothing works I'm cursed

 

[Norwoody]

IMO people might argue this with me but I feel like unless you have documented high testosterone and specifically high DHT, that finasteride or dutasteride should not be the first line response for hair loss.

I agree. There's definitely people out there with low T, low E, and/or other issues that those drugs don't address. It does irk me that people are still stuck in that mentality of "the big 3 is the first line of defense". Generally it will help but that doesn't make it the optimal first line for every individual.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

I am not certain that person suffers from male pattern baldness.

No he doesn't. Its not the common male pattern baldness. But its androgen driven.

 

[Gergely]

what more can I do in your opinion? I'm going to take an anti-dandruff shampoo but I have tried everything, all the remedies and nothing works I'm cursed

You can try fluridil if nothing works, apparently is a good topical NSAA

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

I agree. There's definitely people out there with low T, low E, and/or other issues that those drugs don't address. It does irk me that people are still stuck in that mentality of "the big 3 is the first line of defense". Generally it will help but that doesn't make it the optimal first line for every individual.

I think minoxidil is a good way to differentially figure out if there's "something else" going on, because of the way minoxidil works, it doesn't just "force" your hair to grow, it increases expression of PGE2 and adenosine which induces hair growth, in some more unusual cases of hair loss this can be something the body is faltering on without outside intervention.

For example if there is too much PGD2, and it is adversely impacting hair growth, which means you need more than just minoxidil but a way to actively curtail PGD2 expression.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

what more can I do in your opinion? I'm going to take an anti-dandruff shampoo but I have tried everything, all the remedies and nothing works I'm cursed

You're not describing anything outside of hairloss, you need to describe what is happening with your skin, and specifically your scalp if anything is happening.

I can't help if I don't know if there's anything else going on outside of just hair fall.

 

[DogoDiLaurentiis]

I'll throw some things out there for you.

if

- you have scalp acne

-oily scalp

-irritated scalp

-hair loss

and

You have used nizoral for two months with no improvement

You have taken antibiotics with no improvement

You have taken oral and/or topical antifungals with no improvement

You have used topical corticosteroids with no improvement

You need to go to a dermatologist and ask them about demodex skin parasite infestation.

I have had this, it is a common ocurrence and in many people it does not cause problems but sometimes in some people it can, we all have bacteria and microorganisms living on our skin, but sometimes they get out of control.

Demodex can absolutely cause inflammatory hair loss and many conventional remedies don't work for it, you need to use topical or oral ivermectin to fix the problem if it is.

Demodex is what causes mange in dogs but humans can get it, it can cause their eyebrows and eyelashes to become infected and fall out. It is often mistaken in people for just having acne and oily skin unless it is affecting your eyelashes because very few conditions do that, but basically demodex can get into your pores and follicles and cause problems, even in places where you don't have any hair, such as your nose. One of the adverse reactions your body has to it is that it starts creating sebum in excess which causes inflammation and acne on top of what the parasite is doing.

Unless you give me more info I don't know what I can do to help you.