Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
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Honestly, is there any 'good' donor hair? XD
I am 19 years old, will my hips grow in 6-9 months?
Muscles ... I will become like a prisoner of Auschwitz if I lose them. Or soft-bodied
There is an option to try 2mg E, but I don't know if it will grow the hair back. And if I have to use them longer to get the result, the accumulated effects may be the same as from 4mg
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In my opinion, Alfatradiol seems to be underrated. Maybe the 0.025% it's not very much or maybe is enough for others, but with higher doses, someone might achieve better results. Forget it to act like a DHT blocker when someone is already on Finasteride or Dutasteride because the latters will do the job, outpeforming Alfatradiol in the 5AR blockade. The interesting part of Alfatradiol is the increment in Aromatase Activity and the capability to block 17β-HSD. We know that Aromatase is so important for Hair Follicles and I believe that's the most interesting part of Alfatradiol. Furthermore, as much as it can block the 17β-HSD it's a plus as well, because is blocking the conversion of T to Androstenedione, thus promoting the conversion to the Estrogens, Estrone and Estradiol. Only problem is the ERα receptor binding affinity.
1)https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412238/ (Mechanism)
In the treatment of androgenetic alopecia, the action mechanism of 17α-estradiol is to suppress 5α-reductase activity, which impedes the conversion of testosterone to the more potent metabolite DHT. In addition, it inhibits 17β-dehydrogenase activity, resulting in a slowing of the conversion process of androstenedione to testosterone. As a result, there is a reduction in the syntheses of testosterone and DHT. On the other hand, by stimulating aromatase, the conversion of testosterone to estradiol is accelerated, hence, testosterone is reduced. It thus acts to ultimately reduce DHT. In addition, it has been reported to accelerate the generation of hair follicular matrix cells.
2)https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9284093/ (Aromatase/5AR levels on Scalp)
Findings revealed that both women and men have higher levels of receptors and 5alpha-reductase type I and II in frontal hair follices than in occipital follicles, whereas higher levels of aromatase were found in their occipital follicles. There are marked quantitative differences in levels of androgen receptors and the three enzymes, which we find to be primarily in the outer root sheath of the hair follicles in the two genders. Androgen receptor content in female frontal hair follicles was approximately 40% lower than in male frontal hair follicle. Cytochrome P-450-aromatase content in women's frontal hair follicles was six times greater than in frontal hair follicles in men. Frontal hair follicles in women had 3 and 3.5 times less 5alpha-reductase type I and II, respectively, than frontal hair follicles in men. These differences in levels of androgen receptor and steroid-converting enzymes may account for the different clinical presentations of androgenetic alopecia in women and men.
3)https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12190948/ (17a-Estradiol Induces Aromatase Activity)
For topical treatment of androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) in women, solutions containing either estradiol benzoate, estradiol valerate, 17beta- or 17alpha-estradiol are commercially available in Europe and some studies show an increased anagen and decreased telogen rate after treatment as compared with placebo. At present it is not precisely known how estrogens mediate their beneficial effect on Androgenetic Alopecia-affected hair follicles. We have shown recently that 17alpha-estradiol is able to diminish the amount of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) formed by human hair follicles after incubation with testosterone, while increasing the concentration of weaker steroids such as estrogens. Because aromatase is involved in the conversion of testosterone to estrogens and because there is some clinical evidence that aromatase activity may be involved in the pathogenesis of Androgenetic Alopecia, we addressed the question whether aromatase is expressed in human hair follicles and whether 17alpha-estradiol is able to modify the aromatase activity. Herewith we were able to demonstrate that intact, microdissected hair follicles from female donors express considerably more aromatase activity than hair follicles from male donors. Using immunohistochemistry, we detected the aromatase mainly in the epithelial parts of the hair follicle and not in the dermal papilla. Furthermore, we show that in comparison to the controls, we noticed in 17alpha-estradiol-incubated (1 nM) female hair follicles a concentration- and time-dependent increase of aromatase activity (at 24 h: 1 nM = +18%, 100 nM = +25%, 1 micro M = +57%; 24 h: 1 nM = +18%, 48 h: 1 nM = +25%). In conclusion, our ex vivo experiments suggest that under the influence of 17alpha-estradiol an increased conversion of testosterone to 17beta-estradiol and androstendione to estrone takes place, which might explain the beneficial effects of estrogen treatment of Androgenetic Alopecia.
4) Affinities:
Other investigators have found diverse affinities, as well: Kuiper et al. (1997) [44] reported an affinity of 17 α-E2 to ERα of 58% of the relative affinity of 17 β-E2, and 11% to ERβ, while Torand-Allerand et al. (2005) [26] reported an affinity of 17 α-E2 binding to human recombinant ERα and ERβ of 51 and 64% compared to 17 β-E2, respectively. Kaur et al. (2015) [45] indicated an affinity of 17 α-E2 to ERα to be 40-times lower than 17 β-E2.”
5)General Information for 17a-Estradiol (Recent):
Health benefits attributed to 17α-estradiol, a lifespan-extending compound, are mediated through estrogen receptor α
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.02.130674v1.full (or here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289482/)6) Comparison with Topical Finasteride: (But the thing here is: What if you combine them? Different Mechanisms and you need to yield every possible positive effect)
Efficacy of Topical Finasteride 0.5% vs 17α-Estradiol 0.05% in the Treatment of Postmenopausal Female Pattern Hair Loss: A Retrospective, Single-Blind Study of 119 Patients - PMC
Female pattern hair loss (FPHL) is a common form of scalp hair loss that occurs in 38% of females. Currently, minoxidil solution is the only therapy approved by the US Food and Drug Administration, but many other treatments are used, including ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Efficacy of Topical Finasteride 0.5% vs 17α-Estradiol 0.05% in the Treatment of Postmenopausal Female Pattern Hair Loss: A Retrospective, Single-Blind Study of 119 Patients.
Hope I shed some light. Thank you.
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It helped me a lot, just caused extreme depression too.
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Okay then. Show, Almas two people under 20 benefiting from finasteride
Are you saying that orchiectomy, HRT and Bicalutamide did not help you, but Finasteride did? lol
The likelihood of curing stage 4 cancer is higher than curing early baldness with Finasteride. Finasteride should be considered only as an adjuvant, but by itself it does not work in young people.Okay then. Show, Almas two people under 20 benefiting from finasteride
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I'd be careful with being in the upper E2 ranges for a long period of time, with the risk of blood clots and all. There's also the risk of receptor down regulation, meaning you have to keep increasing the dosage for the same effect. I stopped all estrogen for 3 weeks since it was doing little anyway, and restarted once I started feeling weak and old (menopausal symptoms I guess) and have since restarted injections at a quater dose.
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It is all very strange to me. I ran out of dutasteride for a couple of weeks and had an issue with the insurance company and I couldn't tell any difference at all from going off it. I got the prescription filled three days ago and I am back on it and I can't tell any difference at ll. The same was always true for finasteride.
This is why to a large extent the pro-finasteride and anti-finasteride people don't get each other. Minoxidil is similar too in that some people take extreme doses <raises hand> and they use topical and there are no seeming side effects at all. Others seem to swoon or whatever when they take it. I do think that min can cause or exacerbate contact dermatitis and that might account for some of the mixed hair results.
This is why to a large extent the pro-finasteride and anti-finasteride people don't get each other. Minoxidil is similar too in that some people take extreme doses <raises hand> and they use topical and there are no seeming side effects at all. Others seem to swoon or whatever when they take it. I do think that min can cause or exacerbate contact dermatitis and that might account for some of the mixed hair results.
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I was about 35 when I went on it and I felt nothing and saw nothing growing in but that and min gave me pretty good maintenance. However, not everyone who balds early is facing the same hormonal devastation as others. I have encountered MtF's who began balding at 15 who apparently still lack any success at regrowth. While we have the Norwood scale, that doesn't exactly explain why some end up NW7 and others then bald only slowly going forward.
I do not know how this is explained, but now I will upset everyone who began to go bald before the age of 20: your final point is a bald head. Finasteride will not help you, just jump on Bicalutamide, have breast surgery and switch to HRT. You may notice that everyone who started to go bald at an early age cannot stop the progression with Finasteride or Duta. Also, in one of the Finasteride studies, there was information that the older the person, the higher the chances of success, and there are simply no people under 20 in the studies.
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I actually posted an article above related to this. Someone I really admire had been maintaining pregnancy levels of E2 for over six years via injections and she has recently had a serious bout with DVT which certainly gives me pause. I am actually going to test today because my provider is concerned and thinks levels should be between 100 pg/ml and 200 pg/ml which is too low so I have proposed to her to shoot for 300 pg/ml but I haven't heard back yet.
People should go back and look at what @bridgeburn was taking. I think that from the time he started posting, he was likely always north of 300 pg/ml and he also used oral min from 5mg to 10 mg. Nobody else got growth the way that he did. I am getting very similar results to him which makes me think others aren't using enough E2 for restoration. Once restoration is complete, then maintenance hopefully can be at much lower levels. We all have our goals but I messed around with low dose for over six years with not very inspiring results except for big *** boobs. Once I bombarded my system with E2, hair growth appears to have been "turned back on". I don't think E2 works incrementally very well at all compared to breast growth for example which was pretty vigorous even from OTC menopausal meds.
Noah restored hair at 200 pg / ml if I remember correctly
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I know that you are not MtF but I predict more and more young guys going on HRT and being fine with being non-binary since in itself, that term doesn't mean a whole lot but they will struggle less than you have and less than I have. In some ways, my dysphoria from HRT has been brutal since I have been on it and it was even more brutal beforehand. It is still the most humiliating thing for most guys in virtually all societies to express solidarity with females, either physically or psychologically. Many of us grow up playing sports and HRT is obviously not compatible with those activities unless one competes as a female and that is probably a mind-f*** for those trans females as well.
Gender taboos are strong and they have always been strong but we have a chance in post-industrial society to try to free ourselves from some of the psychological baggage in the future. That's my hope, anyway.
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He was also your age. I am just feeling around in the dark like anyone else but if I succeed in this, starting essentially at 55 with high dose, I think that it is going to catch the attention of others, especially those who allege that the longer you have been bald, the more screwed your are in terms of restoration and that is probably true. I had 40 years of incessant T bombardment to deal with plus raging out of control dermatitis. I could never go back to that, not to mention the male compulsive mind set. I am compulsive plenty under HRT but it is much more akin to being interested and not being compelled. It's all a huge mind-f*** and it will continue to be for you, Almas, too as you live in an unsympathetic nation.
Thank Goddess for my therapist. She is amazing. Once a week, via Zoom and I see her in a couple of hours. Virtually all of us can use therapy in our situations if it is available.
I can endure a lot, but not baldness. If necessary, I will use HRT. Yes, there is a lot to sacrifice. All I want is f*****g hair. Is there anything in this universe that can help me?
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Well. You just started still. I am not saying that we are doctors but I think that we have a huge amount of accumulated knowledge on here and if bica doesn't entirely do the trick, then adding to the stack will be an option. I agree about baldness and perhaps I was socialized differently but I would much prefer to be a female with amazing hair assuming I am decent otherwise than to be six feet tall and weight 225 lbs or something with a big bald Col Kurtz pate. I am petite and that is a huge benefit for many MtF's.
You can hide the fact that you are using hormone therapy. Don't wear makeup, wear men's clothing, act like a man, etc. People will notice the oddities in the facial features, but they will not suspect anything
I have soft features and short stature - I am an ideal candidate for HRT. But not as perfect as Noah - he is prettier than me.
But I'm a man and I don't want to look too feminine