Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

JaneyElizabeth

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Are you suggesting throwing all AAs in the trash and just injecting yourself with estrogen? Low dose monotherapy will not stop hair loss, and high doses will have powerful effects. We cis guys are looking for an intermediate option. This implies maximum androgen blockade and minimum estradiol dosages.
I am suggesting you look at the studies. Anecdotally, I have tried this from many different angles and flooding the system with E2 and then using oral minoxidil on top of that is by far the thing that has worked and it has worked impressively. I have been trying to figure out why MtF hair regrowth is so variable and I think it is because we can easily feminize from the neck down with middling levels of T and E2. That's why I say, there is often a reason why a certain approach is not a "thing" among cis-males. I am sure that people have been trying this since 1930, largely without success except for "transsexuals", now mostly called transgender females with SRS. Rob Winter mentions eunuchs treated with estrogen have often regrown copious amounts of hair but that mere castration didn't work to regrow hair.

Furthermore, the body "doesn't care" whether one uses 2mg or 20 mg daily provided that adult female targets are met as those will induce complete feminization.

I am all in favor of you trying different things as that increases our overall knowledge and provides additional anecdotal data points. At the same time, you are not obligated to do research when your goal is more hair. I am just as happy either way but if you read through this massive thread (you need several hours to do so) we have seen people usually meeting success using both an AA and estrogen. I am using MPA but otherwise, I am attempting to show that AA's are not necessary as this is what all of the "cool kids" in the MtF world are doing, called estradiol-only HRT. It definitely works. The other thing that I regret to inform folks of is that sheds even massive ones, seem to be part of the full regeneration process and my feeling already and validated by the article on my thread, is that stopping treatment due to a shed simply sets a person back to zero.

That's why I am recommending people have a hair system or a wig in place as a back-up should a shed happen. I wish I were more sanguine. I was obviously previously but I just never got anywhere on low-dose estradiol in a context where I was not hitting adult female targets. I started wearing two Climara 100's in June, plus 1.25mg of Premarin plus liberal use of estrogel taking me to adult female first trimester pregnancy levels and I posted my test to indicate this--and boom! Profusive hair growth began and then after adding oral min, explosive hair growth commenced. That's when I started regular posting of pics so people could follow along to see if it worked and what it looked like as it came in. The other thing that you might notice is that 2mg at least in the short-run appears to be the minimum used by those with excellent regrowth but most were using above 2mg plus an AA.

Unfortunately the two folks who have written most about this, @bridgeburn and I, both experienced breast growth far more than is typical of MtF's on HRT so it probably appears that substantial breast growth is often part of this when in fact, it rarely is. But as I quote my favorite line from a forgotten play, "you pays your money and you takes your chances".

Goddess bless.
 
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Nimos0651

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Are you suggesting throwing all AAs in the trash and just injecting yourself with estrogen? Low dose monotherapy will not stop hair loss, and high doses will have powerful effects. We cis guys are looking for an intermediate option. This implies maximum androgen blockade and minimum estradiol dosages.
This is what I am trying to figure out as well. 3 weeks on 50mg spironolactone 1mg Estradiol .75mg estrogel topically to scalp.
 

nicoandgello

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This is what I am trying to figure out as well. 3 weeks on 50mg spironolactone 1mg Estradiol .75mg estrogel topically to scalp.
50mg is really small dose. Do you think it could help someone that only takes finasteride and oral min?
 

Pls_NW-1

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Spironolactone has more anectodal evidence, while bicalutamide in theory should work better, but the tits man, the tits.
Yes the jiggle wiggles lol. Some people get crazy hair effects from bica on here... seems like. But yeah, take bica and forget about hair loss. Lol and think about new problems :(
 

nicoandgello

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Yes the jiggle wiggles lol. Some people get crazy hair effects from bica on here... seems like. But yeah, take bica and forget about hair loss. Lol and think about new problems :(
Who used bicalutamide? I think Ein and Ikarus. Ikarus used E2 so its hard to say if bica worked for him. Ein on the other hand never had any male pattern baldness(at least from what I have seen)
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Spironolactone has more anectodal evidence, while bicalutamide in theory should work better, but the tits man, the tits.
No. There has been a misunderstanding. I am not stating that AA's not be used or discarded. I am speaking towards the idea that AA's are no less feminizing when used with estrogen or when used in large amounts by themselves. Many state that AA's alone can induce breast development. I also note that very low amounts of estrogen can reset the axis. The person who mentioned estradiol plus estrogel and spironolactone has a reasonable protocol although you might want to use 1mg of Estrogel. 50 mg of spironolactone is a perfect amount for starting off. Remember we titrate upwards as we go forward but the less spironolactone the better. Estrogen is an endogenous hormone that we all produce. AA's are all synthetic.

My point is that many permutations are likely to be feminizing. In terms of spironolactone v. bica, I mean we don't know. Many, like me, find spironolactone plus estrogen to be more feminizing than estrogen alone and extremely so. Bica at one time had a reputation for being good for hair growth but I haven't seen much evidence of this. It does seem to have fewer sides in the short-run. For MtF's, essentially none of the AA's promote breast growth and many folks blame CPA or spironolactone for fusing their breast ducts.
 
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nicoandgello

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No. There has been a misunderstanding. I am not stating that AA's not be used or discarded. I am speaking towards the idea that AA's are no less feminizing when used with estrogen or when used in large amounts by themselves. Many state that AA's alone can induce breast development. I also note that very low amounts of estrogen can reset the axis. The person who mentioned estradiol plus estrogel and spironolactone has a reasonable protocol although you might want to use 1mg of Estrogel. 50 mg of spironolactone is a perfect amount for starting off. Remember we titrate upwards as we go forward but the less spironolactone the better. Estrogen is an endogenous hormone that we all produce. AA's are all synthetic.

My point is that many permutations are likely to be feminizing. In terms of spironolactone v. bica, I mean we don't know. Many, like me, find spironolactone plus estrogen to be more feminizing than estrogen alone and extremely so. Bica at one time had a reputation for being good for hair growth but I haven't seen much evidence of this. It does seem to have fewer sides in the short-run. For MtF's, essentially none of the AA's promote breast growth and many folks blame CPA or spironolactone for fusing their breast ducts.
I was thinking about low dose spironolactone to help my SebDerm. My hairloss stopped like 2 years ago, and it's not worth it for me to risk using estrogens. I'd rather get 2 FUTs to fix my hairline and lower it by 1 cm.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I was thinking about low dose spironolactone to help my SebDerm. My hairloss stopped like 2 years ago, and it's not worth it for me to risk using estrogens. I'd rather get 2 FUTs to fix my hairline and lower it by 1 cm.
spironolactone and estrogen didn't even curtail my dermatitis. Only beard removal did but I mean, it might for you. I had debilitating dermatitis as shown in the blog with several pics.
 

nicoandgello

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He was on an extreme program as am I. He did us a favor and hopefully I am by publishing protocols that we know at least worked for one person but we actually need more folks who titrate slowly for data points.
I saved his regimen, and realistically it's f*****g insane.
.5mg dutasteride, 6mg buccal estrofem, 1.5mg estrogel.
Every other day, 10mg oral minoxidil. topical finasteride/min solution on the other every other days
one Diane pill on Monday and Friday.
100mg oral progesterone first 10 nights of the month

No one should use this much meds.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I saved his regimen, and realistically it's f*****g insane.
.5mg dutasteride, 6mg buccal estrofem, 1.5mg estrogel.
Every other day, 10mg oral minoxidil. topical finasteride/min solution on the other every other days
one Diane pill on Monday and Friday.
100mg oral progesterone first 10 nights of the month

No one should use this much meds.
I keep posting them. Let me see if I have the same one.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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@Bridegeburn's Protocols

I try to re-post these frequently since many people seek proven protocols even though all items in a stack are frequently unnecessary:


@bridgeburn Dosage Recommendations:

I am trying to keep up a bit with @bridgeburn's dosing as we know that it will work. He was taking his estrogen sublingually so that means more or less it is three times as potent but has a shorter half-life from what I have read. This is about at his 9 month mark, I think:

abcnamed said:


hi, may l ask you, what's your final complete regime now?
which kind of estradiol are you using?
ethinyl estradiol ،valerate?! topical or orally or both? in which dose?,
and are you using cyproterone 50 now?
thanks
.5mg Dutasteride
2.25mg oestrogel topically
2mg estradiol hemihydrate, buccally
50mg cyproterone
10mg oral minoxidil, every other day

In terms of strength, this would be a pretty standard male to female HRT protocol for someone well into transition or maintaining adult female target levels except the CPA is off the charts. This is puzzling because he was doing fine without CPA but he might be struggling with the temples. He cut back on the oral minoxidil because someone alleged that that was causing some/much of his growth. I highly doubt this because the growth he has simply doesn't resemble minoxidil hair growth in its pervasiveness. I don't think anyone is claiming that oral minoxidil on its own could do anything close to his gains. He mentions that oral minoxidil has a short half-life so I am not sure why he didn't just go to 2.5mg twice a day.

He explains that he decreased oral minoxidil dosage due to excessive unwanted hair growth.

On August 25th, 2018, this was his regimen:

Second Cocktail in his own words, dating from late summer to fall of 2018:

1mg dutasteride everyday, 6mg buccal estrofem (a couple times i took 8mg but mostly 6mg a day), 200mg spironolactone, 500mg sulfasalizine, 10mg oral minoxidil every other day and topical minoxidil every other day on alternating days (I don't really measure just cover the area). He also was taking 100 mg of progesterone orally which is a marginal dose. October 2nd, he added one Diane pill per week.

All he really needs in my estimation at this point is the 6mg to 8mg estrofem. The oral minoxidil might be important also but that isn't a hormonal med. He shouldn't need oral minoxidil and sulfasalizine, just one or the other from what I have read as long as a person is using topical minoxidil with the sulfasalizine. I think by this point the spironolactone is largely useless as is the dutatsteride but he doesn't know this because he doesn't test so he can't be sure he is hitting targets, perhaps, without an AA.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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@Bridegeburn's Protocols

I try to re-post these frequently since many people seek proven protocols even though all items in a stack are frequently unnecessary:


@bridgeburn Dosage Recommendations:

I am trying to keep up a bit with @bridgeburn's dosing as we know that it will work. He was taking his estrogen sublingually so that means more or less it is three times as potent but has a shorter half-life from what I have read. This is about at his 9 month mark, I think:


.5mg Dutasteride
2.25mg oestrogel topically
2mg estradiol hemihydrate, buccally
50mg cyproterone
10mg oral minoxidil, every other day

In terms of strength, this would be a pretty standard male to female HRT protocol for someone well into transition or maintaining adult female target levels except the CPA is off the charts. This is puzzling because he was doing fine without CPA but he might be struggling with the temples. He cut back on the oral minoxidil because someone alleged that that was causing some/much of his growth. I highly doubt this because the growth he has simply doesn't resemble minoxidil hair growth in its pervasiveness. I don't think anyone is claiming that oral minoxidil on its own could do anything close to his gains. He mentions that oral minoxidil has a short half-life so I am not sure why he didn't just go to 2.5mg twice a day.

He explains that he decreased oral minoxidil dosage due to excessive unwanted hair growth.

On August 25th, 2018, this was his regimen:

Second Cocktail in his own words, dating from late summer to fall of 2018:

1mg dutasteride everyday, 6mg buccal estrofem (a couple times i took 8mg but mostly 6mg a day), 200mg spironolactone, 500mg sulfasalizine, 10mg oral minoxidil every other day and topical minoxidil every other day on alternating days (I don't really measure just cover the area). He also was taking 100 mg of progesterone orally which is a marginal dose. October 2nd, he added one Diane pill per week.

All he really needs in my estimation at this point is the 6mg to 8mg estrofem. The oral minoxidil might be important also but that isn't a hormonal med. He shouldn't need oral minoxidil and sulfasalizine, just one or the other from what I have read as long as a person is using topical minoxidil with the sulfasalizine. I think by this point the spironolactone is largely useless as is the dutatsteride but he doesn't know this because he doesn't test so he can't be sure he is hitting targets, perhaps, without an AA.
He was taking oral minoxidil and if I understand correctly, also sulfurtransferase. I am not sure that both were needed.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I keep posting them. Let me see if I have the same one.
Yours is similar to the second one I posted but seems to differ slightly but you were following him in real-time. I just read the entire thread. I thought that you looked familiar. The main one I remember above all was the person with the baby doll head icon which sort of freaked me out. I guess I will add yours as an intermediate or additional protocol.
 
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