Theory: Cooked Fat =DHT(Dihydrotestosterone) Baldness

[abcdefg]

Lets also say Docj and brian are almost never wrong. They are always careful about what they say, and they pretty much everything we currently know about male pattern baldness today. You really cant argue with them and win unless you have lots of good studies to back up what you speak.

 

[SkylineGTR]

yet again....

if it had that significant of an impact then all fat people would be bald. as would all hypothyroid and hypoglycemic sufferers.

Males naturally have lower SHBG levels due to testosterone and I did post a link that if you read the second technical reference it shows the actual levels in normal adults male and female. Females have almost a 2/3rds increase over males except in times of pregnancy.

the links you post are so vague and are just small tests and theories from pubmed. Also they aren't specific tests to support your claim.

Diet would play a role to an extent but not significant enough to do anything. Because if this were true then homeopathic remedies would cure everything when we know this to be false. Herbs and fruits and vegetables can't cure genetic disorders. If diet and exercise was the cure then all healthy people wouldn't be bald.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Lets also say Docj and brian are almost never wrong. They are always careful about what they say, and they pretty much everything we currently know about male pattern baldness today. You really cant argue with them and win unless you have lots of good studies to back up what you speak.

They present one perspective and whilst this is useful I believe that when looking at something which hasn't been cured, all avenues must be explored.

Regarding studies, I don't have access to medical websites so I can only provide abstracts.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

yet again....

if it had that significant of an impact then all fat people would be bald. as would all hypothyroid and hypoglycemic sufferers..

And once again I say to you that they must first have the baldness gene. Moreover, they must have been suffering from high insulin for a significant period of time.

Males naturally have lower SHBG levels due to testosterone and I did post a link that if you read the second technical reference it shows the actual levels in normal adults male and female. Females have almost a 2/3rds increase over males except in times of pregnancy. ..

No one is disputing that. What I am saying is, as men get older, insulin rises, estrogen rises, DHT rises, testosterone drops and SHBG increases.

Insulin actually regulates the testosterone. Insulin is controlled by diet. So diet comes first.

Baldness incidence increases with age.

Someone with some good knowledge should be able to draw conclusions from that.

the links you post are so vague and are just small tests and theories from pubmed. Also they aren't specific tests to support your claim. .

I don't think it would matter what I posted up, so many aren't prepared to accept any advance on Finisteride/Dutasteride.

I will give you an example though. I know a guy who had perfect hair for 23 years of his life. He was always a fairly thin guy. But he then began eating a bad diet and fast food and drinking. Within 6-8 months, much of hair had disappeared.

Do I think this would have happened had he remained lean with low insulin? I really dont think so.

Diet would play a role to an extent but not significant enough to do anything. .

Merely opinion.

Because if this were true then homeopathic remedies would cure everything when we know this to be false.

What has this got to do with homeopathy? I don't think you understand homeopathy.

Herbs and fruits and vegetables can't cure genetic disorders.

Some people are born with the genes for cancer but eating a healthy diet can prevent expression of this gene. I have already posted a link where scientists (published in New Scientist magazine) have shown that diet can trump genes and that there is ongoing research in that area.

If diet and exercise was the cure then all healthy people wouldn't be bald.

I never mentioned exercise. Bald people aren't healthy people, they are at greater risk for diseases and their hormones are out of sync.

 

[docj077]

yet again....

if it had that significant of an impact then all fat people would be bald. as would all hypothyroid and hypoglycemic sufferers..

And once again I say to you that they must first have the baldness gene. Moreover, they must have been suffering from high insulin for a significant period of time.

I think that you fail to understand the time frame that we're dealing with here. If a high insulin levels are required for a significant period of time, then your theory is null and void already. Too many guys on these forums are healthy, productive, and most important of all, skinny. What's even more important to recognize is that many of these same individuals are in their middle to late teens.

Your time frames are all screwed up as their is no way that healthy young men that show no signs and symptoms of hyperinsulinemia can develop catastrophic physiological changes within a year or two of starting puberty and progress in the norwood scale without the process being completely mediated by androgens and nothing else. There simply isn't enough time for another pathology to arrive on the scene and take over the body in such a way.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

If a high insulin levels are required for a significant period of time, then your theory is null and void already.

That timeframe may be different for different people. It may be 1 month for some and could be a year for another.

Too many guys on these forums are healthy, productive, and most important of all, skinny. What's even more important to recognize is that many of these same individuals are in their middle to late teens..

I don't know if they're healthy or not. What I do know is that you can be skinny with high insulin.

Your time frames are all screwed up as their is no way that healthy young men that show no signs and symptoms of hyperinsulinemia can develop catastrophic physiological changes within a year or two of starting puberty and progress in the norwood scale without the process being completely mediated by androgens and nothing else. .

The insulin may not need to be that high for some people's SHBG to decline enough for androgens to have an effect upon the scalp.

Doctor, have you ever had a fasting insulin test?

 

[docj077]

If a high insulin levels are required for a significant period of time, then your theory is null and void already.

That timeframe may be different for different people. It may be 1 month for some and could be a year for another.

Speculation lacking scientific evidence.

Too many guys on these forums are healthy, productive, and most important of all, skinny. What's even more important to recognize is that many of these same individuals are in their middle to late teens..

I don't know if they're healthy or not. What I do know is that you can be skinny with high insulin.

You can also be overweight with a defect in your androgen receptor and perfect insulin levels.

Your time frames are all screwed up as their is no way that healthy young men that show no signs and symptoms of hyperinsulinemia can develop catastrophic physiological changes within a year or two of starting puberty and progress in the norwood scale without the process being completely mediated by androgens and nothing else. .

The insulin may not need to be that high for some people's SHBG to decline enough for androgens to have an effect upon the scalp.

Speculation once again.

Doctor, have you ever had a fasting insulin test?

No, put I've had a fasting glucose test done twice and both times my glucose was 75-80 which is normal. So, no signs of hyperinsulinemia along with no symptoms of hyperinsulinemia.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

If a high insulin levels are required for a significant period of time, then your theory is null and void already.

That timeframe may be different for different people. It may be 1 month for some and could be a year for another.

Speculation lacking scientific evidence..

Agreed, but where not enough specific research has been done on that particular issue sometimes one is forced to try to draw own conclusions.

Moreover, it is certainly true that some people are more sensitive to the effects of insulin and others.

Too many guys on these forums are healthy, productive, and most important of all, skinny. What's even more important to recognize is that many of these same individuals are in their middle to late teens..

I don't know if they're healthy or not. What I do know is that you can be skinny with high insulin.

You can also be overweight with a defect in your androgen receptor and perfect insulin levels. .[/quote]

Well, high insulin correlates with low SHBG. Low SHBG allows greater amounts of androgens to act upon the tissues. Low SHBG has been linked to prematurely balding men.

Your time frames are all screwed up as their is no way that healthy young men that show no signs and symptoms of hyperinsulinemia can develop catastrophic physiological changes within a year or two of starting puberty and progress in the norwood scale without the process being completely mediated by androgens and nothing else. .

The insulin may not need to be that high for some people's SHBG to decline enough for androgens to have an effect upon the scalp.

Speculation once again. .[/quote]

I do feel that different people have different reactions and sensitivity to insulin. We ARE all different with an individual biochemistry.

Doctor, have you ever had a fasting insulin test?

No, put I've had a fasting glucose test done twice and both times my glucose was 75-80 which is normal. So, no signs of hyperinsulinemia along with no symptoms of hyperinsulinemia.[/quote]

I'm looking at small increases in insulin though.

IS there any way you can take a fasting insulin test? I would be very interested in the results.

btw, what do you think of this doctor's (MD) conclusions:

http://www.drmirkin.com/men/M119.htm

 

[docj077]

IS there any way you can take a fasting insulin test? I would be very interested in the results.

btw, what do you think of this doctor's (MD) conclusions:

http://www.drmirkin.com/men/M119.htm

No, there isn't a way I can take a fasting insulin test right now.

As for the doctor's conclusions, I find it amusing that the molecule he links to male pattern baldness is the same molecule that other researchers believe is the pro-growth molecule actually responsible for hair growth.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

No, there isn't a way I can take a fasting insulin test right now.

As for the doctor's conclusions, I find it amusing that the molecule he links to male pattern baldness is the same molecule that other researchers believe is the pro-growth molecule actually responsible for hair growth.

Yeah, I hear you. But he is talking about 'high' levels. And he is an MD, surely you have some respect for what he's saying?

What do you know about a fasting insulin test? How would one go about taking one?

I am interested in getting my insulin as low as possible, from a health perspective.

Did you know that insulin found in hair follicles plays a role in the control of the growth cycle of the hair?

 

[abcdefg]

Not to interrupt but lets remember what one doctor says doesnt mean crap when it comes to scientific theories. I mean any moron can get C's throught medical school and college and become a crappy doctor. That doesnt make any paper you write worth anything to anyone but yourself and those gullible enough to believe it. A theory must be believed by MOST of the scientific community to really have a shot thats why things move so slowly.
Who cares what 1 MD writes? I write crap down on paper myself. Im a computer scientist so anything I say about computers is right then? I dont think so.

 

[SkylineGTR]

Did you know that insulin found in hair follicles plays a role in the control of the growth cycle of the hair?

Since when?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Not to interrupt but lets remember what one doctor says doesnt mean crap when it comes to scientific theories. I mean any moron can get C's throught medical school and college and become a crappy doctor. That doesnt make any paper you write worth anything to anyone but yourself and those gullible enough to believe it. A theory must be believed by MOST of the scientific community to really have a shot thats why things move so slowly.
Who cares what 1 MD writes? I write crap down on paper myself. Im a computer scientist so anything I say about computers is right then? I dont think so.

He only repeated something which was in a study carried out by Harvard researchers.

I actually agree with you about the idea that it doesn't matter what a doctor says. Its the content of what someone is saying which interests me.

 

[abcdefg]

One more thing is with how complex the body is one study isnt really worth much it takes a large body of well done large studies that only collectively prove anything. The body is not like studying engineering or how to build a car, its in a complexity all its own mainly because of how hard it is to test anything.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

One more thing is with how complex the body is one study isnt really worth much it takes a large body of well done large studies that only collectively prove anything. The body is not like studying engineering or how to build a car, its in a complexity all its own mainly because of how hard it is to test anything.

Many many studies have been carried out on women's hairloss linking them to male pattern baldness.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Want to lower DHT?

Daily, vigorous aerobic exercise (as opposed to short workout periods designed to raise androgen levels and build muscle or more sporadic exercise) and a diet which is adequate yet more moderate in terms of fat/total calorie intake have been shown to reduce baseline insulin levels as well as baseline total and free testosterone, significantly lowering baseline DHT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Did you know that insulin found in hair follicles plays a role in the control of the growth cycle of the hair?

Since when?

Its true. I read it in a medical journal earlier. I'm looking for the specific link.

 

[bubka]

Want to lower DHT?

Daily, vigorous aerobic exercise (as opposed to short workout periods designed to raise androgen levels and build muscle or more sporadic exercise) and a diet which is adequate yet more moderate in terms of fat/total calorie intake have been shown to reduce baseline insulin levels as well as baseline total and free testosterone, significantly lowering baseline DHT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum

is DHT even measured in that study you posted???, NO, just shut up already

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Want to lower DHT?

Daily, vigorous aerobic exercise (as opposed to short workout periods designed to raise androgen levels and build muscle or more sporadic exercise) and a diet which is adequate yet more moderate in terms of fat/total calorie intake have been shown to reduce baseline insulin levels as well as baseline total and free testosterone, significantly lowering baseline DHT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... med_docsum

is DHT even measured in that study you posted???, NO, just shut up already

I went on what it said in wikipedia. I don't have the full article, but I'm assuming its true.

Its nice that you posted up a picture in an effort to make yourself look cool.

 

[bubka]

hey man, the proof is in the pudding, you type in your own fate here